After the unavoidable marriage offer, the taxi drops me at Thiaroy-sur-mer, a neighbourhood of Grand Dakar. Once off the “highway” nothing is paved. On the street the goats eat the trash and the donkeys carry material for the many construction sites. The children swarm the car when we stop in front of the Collectif des Femmes en Lutte Contre l’immigration clandestine, where Mme Diouf works. She’s a celebrity in Thiaroy-sur-mer, Dakar, Senegal, and well beyond, as the pictures pinned on the walls of the office show (just to give you an idea, Mme Diouf is shaking hands with Segolene Royal in one of them). What follows is an abridged version of our interview, but for those interested much has been written on the group’s activities on the internet.
L: Thanks very much for receiving me. To begin with, could you please talk a bit about the work of the collectif, and the reasons why you decided to organize?
A group of us organized after we lost our children, who had taken the pirogues to cross the Atlantic and reach Europe. We started in 2006. The pirogues were taking undocumented migrants to Spain before, but it was in late 2005 and early 2006 that the issue became more poignant.
L: And why Spain has become such a favourite destination?
Because Spain is the bridge between Africa and Spain. It’s the closest European territory.
L: What pushes people to leave Senegal to go to Europe?
Here there is no work, there is no company that will employ them, the fishing industry is not as good as it used to be and the agricultural sector is not working. It’s the economic situation of the country.
L: But is it just about money? Because I hear very often that “to be a man one has to go to Europe”…
Yes, people here think that Europe is ElDorado, that here there’s no work, but as soon as they arrive in Europe they’ll find a job and have money right away – with that they’ll get the respect they seek. That’s why we’re working on a documentary to show, here, how immigrants really live in Europe. It’s a campaign to break with that unrealistic image that people here have of Europe. We want to show it to those who want to leave so that they know.
L: And why do you think there is such an image of Europe?
Because of colonisation: we were colonized by Europe, and people always have an inferiority complex, we feel that we are an under developed country. We have no resources: no iron, no diamonds … and through tv we see the show, the luxury of Europe, and people think that the answer to poverty is to go to Europe to look for a job.
L: And what about the modou-modou? (Senegalese emigrants)
Yes, I know of Senegalese emigrants who get loans so that they can show off when they come to Senegal for holidays. But they don’t talk about what really happens in Europe. We want these people to say the truth, that Europe is not what we think it is, but they are scared: they want to look good, they want people to think that they are smart and rich. That is why we really need to work on informing those who want to migrate of the reality of migration. Then, together with this we need to provide alternatives, here at the association we need to show that we can create jobs. Here we also finance initiatives to show that it is possible to succeed here, that business is possible also in Thiaroy-sur-mer.
L: These are women who have lost their sons at sea. Is there any woman in your association who has lost a daughter?
Women don’t usually travel by pirogue. The few that do are pregnant women who hope that by having their child in Europe, she / he will have the nationality and they will be allowed to stay. But really, women are a very small portion of those who leave by pirogue, because here their duty is to stay at home. This is a patriarchal community, and it’s men who make the decisions. Women are subdued. In that sense, this association is quite exceptional, because we don’t put up with that kind of domination.
L: Yes, I really can’t understand it, because when I visit families it’s always the women who are working to keep their families afloat – it’s them who do the housework, who go to the market to sell, who cook, who do the laundry by hand … but they don’t seem to have any saying, even when they’re actually providing what their husbands should provide according to traditional gender roles.
No, they don’t have any saying, nobody listens to them. Most people who migrate illegally do so supported by their mothers (note: this may be specific to Thiaroy-sur-mer, because research has showed this is not always the case). It’s the mother who pays for the trip, who sells their jewellery so that their sons can get on a pirogue. Because if the son succeeds in Europe, he’s going to be a pride and support for the whole community and thus for their mothers – it is a great honour to have a successful emigrant son. But if he does not succeed, if he dies at sea, people are going to say that the mother was cursed: the family is not going to take her. Even the President of the Republic has put the responsibility on this women, which is simply not fair. That’s why they’re encouraged to pay for their son’s trip, so that they’ll be respected by the community.
L: But then about half the people who leave disappear or die at sea.
That’s why we created the organization, to show women that they should not finance their sons’ trip.
L: So you really are proposing almost to change the culture, the mentality of the people.
It’s not about changing the culture, but to bring about change little by little, through a pacific revolution, so that people will start thinking differently. From within the community, little by little. And always working with people. If it’s not that way, we can’t succeed, because it’s a very cohesive community here. To work here one has to work not only on issues related to emigration, but also with health, genital mutilation, literacy, domestic violence … Things that happen here and are directly related to the problem that we want to solve.
L: So for you, the status of women in Senegalese society and illegal migration are …
Intertwined. Especially in fishing communities like the one in this neighbourhood, they’re very conservative. We work here at Thiaroy-sur-mer but also at Ouakam, Yoff – they’re all very similar.
L: And do you think that there are well organized groups behind this kind of migration, with the pirogues?
Well, yes, it’s somehow organized. It’s usually someone who has their own money to pay for the construction of a pirogue, then other people who go out searching clients, others who deal with the gasoline, the food … So there is some structure. In 2007 I heard of 2 traffickers who were in prison, and I heard they were people from my own community. I thought, I need to go talk to them. I went to talk to them and they joined the association – one of them is the person who gathers the mussels that the women then smoke, package, and sell. He trafficked people, he was the one who used to convince people to get in the pirogues.
L: You’ve really managed to get the support of very unlikely people: a trafficker, a marabout, a wrestler, singers …
Yes, during Ramadan one has to listen to everything that the marabout says, so I managed to get the support of a marabout who, during Ramadan, explained to people what the Coran says about such risky travels (note: some people think that migration is something of a holy enterprise, and that they will go to paradise if they die at sea). And those who were thinking about migrating were discouraged, because it was the marabout who said it, who said the Coran does not encourage migration, that they will not go to paradise if they die in the pirogue. Then about the wrestler, here in Senegal wrestling (“la lutte”) is the national sport. So, we organized a combat with a prize, and we took advantage of the occasion to talk to people and try to discourage them from migrating. One has to get such people with authority within the community to change the mentality of people.
L: And what do you think of the militarization of the border?
I am absolutely against it. Totally against FRONTEX. Because if we had just told them those young people the truth, they wouldn’t have left. One needs to speak the truth, find alternatives, talk to people, organize them, engage in a dialogue. That is the only solution, because they really know the problem and are the only ones who can solve it. But FRONTEX … well, that’s the state. That’s the way they work.
